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Poster: He Live's Date: Jul 8, 2007 1:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

in light of the acoustic guitar mag Jerry interview sited here a couple days ago....the youtube video linked by AshesRising is just exemplary....jerry pleads ignorant in that inetrview...he doesnt know why people like his music, he's just doing it, he doesnt have the perspective to explain it...

watch this video of morning dew, from april 27 1977.....it is the most genius musical performance i have ever seen in terms of someone, jerry garcia, who is communicating on the most beautiful human level, with anyone that cares to share his experience...NO ONE can play QUIET like that......NO ONE, no single musician or person, shaman, priest painter lawyer, no mere regular person can take you on such an instantaneous ride through the depths of the cosmic soul, eons of human experience all connected -- a beautiful, naked rendering of the soul without purpose, an unmotivated giving of the self. there is nothing to compare this to....ritual music not concerned with ritual, ....channeling, a connectedness to some eternal spirit caught on film...

we all know people who dont get it....could you imagine missing out on the feeling you can get from this vid?

jerry garcia could unfold the universe with a song and he's just plain dumb about why we're interested?...

watch it, then go relax.....just chill out. try not to think about it too hard....when you are breathing normally again, watch it....but dont skip ahead...WATCH as everything unfolfds..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_74a6Xn3HMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIazEis6EWg

(and i was thinking....and i have never checked out these show before how dew was jerry's centerpiece in the early years and how terrapin kind of took on that role in the later years and how terrapin shares some charcteristics with morning dew, has a similar chordal cressendo at the end and some of the same grand gesture, and i wonder how many times did they do terrapin and morning dew in the same show....it is a l lot to handle, and sure enough this dew comes out of terrapin!!!)


This post was modified by He Live's on 2007-07-08 08:26:28

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jul 9, 2007 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

Jerry wasn't completely a solo act: he had the support of twelve people (Bob, Phil, Billy, Mickey, Pig, Keith, Donna, Brent, Bruce, Vince, Hunter) and someone from above (his Dark Star). If we want to stay in the land of metaphor, Jerry does seem to be somewhat supra(not super)natural. So let's not get lost in the Jerry is Jesus phrase as a simplistic, naive comment. Neither one chose the role the had to play.

A good many of you followed Jerry as if he were a God, which he was not. He was a troubled, flawed man whose demons sanctified and empowered his genius. Ironically, it was his followers and "the twelve" who forgave him his sins! (He once said that the fans loved it when he almost died). And it was the twelve and the followers who led him to his death. He didn't continue to play with the Grateful Dead because that was his desire: he felt obligated--obligated to his bandmates, the GD employees, and the heads. He would have preferred the personal pleasure of playing with Grissom or Nelson or his other friends and not playing icon to an increasingly huge hoard of worshipers who came along for a ride he no longer wished to conduct.

He took drugs to facilitate his shamanistic powers, and the drugs weakened him and held him captive to his unsought role. Finally, the "force that extends from the axis" became too strong for him to contend with, and his body and spirit were broken.

Interesting how the world treats its icons:

"Roll you down the line boy, drop you for a loss
Ride out on a cold railroad and nail you to a cross."

Jerry wasn't Jesus, but you could have fooled me.


This post was modified by ghostofpig on 2007-07-09 15:25:23

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Poster: gumlog Date: Jul 9, 2007 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

I don't want to get into the whole Jerry is a god or like Jesus or anything else. Jerry was the best at what he did and when Jerry and the Boys played, we followed along. I do believe that there is/was a catalyst that got us to the point where we really got it. We went from going to the show to experiencing the show. Sure, not everyone went that far and some of them have the same love of the band and what they did. It was a long strange trip and while Opening my mind didn't make or break the band, it did allow me to see deeper into the band, the music, the scene and the world around me.

Some want to call it a spiritual trip and that is fine with me. Some want to call it a religion and that is a little harder to accept. The reason I say that is because Jesus is not about a religion, He is about a relationship. I consider myself a part of Jesus' family because of the relationship I have with him. I considered myself a part of the Dead family because of the relationship I had with them.

gumlog

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Poster: Ssag Date: Jul 8, 2007 1:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

Bro I am not a religious person at all but to equate Jerry to Jesus is just plain fucked.

I realize this may be starting shit but this comparison is exactly what scared the band from being more of themselves to the fans toward the later days. If you read the many various interviews including Jerry himself they didn't like people adoring them like gods or something. These comparisons unnerved them according to my interpretations of what I have read in the past.

They were just a bunch of people that played amazing music.
I will say it again all Jerry was, was a guy that had a gift to play guitar better than the rest of us. That's it! Nothing more to it than that.

I don't know maybe I am reading into this too much but I am always freaked when I see this stuff written in black and white, "Jerry=Jesus". BTW I am no way a religious person at all so thats not where I am coming from.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Jul 8, 2007 7:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

Doesn't your reply assume that Jesus was something more than just a man who got people excited and then ended up getting killed on a cross?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 8, 2007 1:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

Clapton was God until Jimi came to town....

Robert Johnson sold his soul to Satan. Too cool to be forgotten.

Jesus was a junkie? I thought he was a wino . . . and had no idea he played guitar (but I should have known from all those shows at the catalyst)

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Poster: sparky999255 Date: Jul 8, 2007 5:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

"no single musician or person, shaman, priest painter lawyer, no mere regular person can take you on such an instantaneous ride through the depths of the cosmic soul, eons of human experience all connected"

For this person it seems that Jerry moves him in a way that Jesus moves others, so in that vein, in my opinion, it isn't a "just plain fucked", comparison.

"we all know people who dont get it....could you imagine missing out on the feeling you can get from this vid?"

I would guess that many believers in Jesus would say something similar to this when speaking about Jesus and the bible. It must be difficult for those truly moved by religion to understand why others just don't understand.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I just think it's a cool thing when ANYTHING can make someone feel what the initial poster of this thread seems to be feeling when he watches this video of Jerry. Just my 2 cents.

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Poster: He Live's Date: Jul 8, 2007 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

i wasnt really trying to equate jesus and jerry....and i am not religious either. but i think there is a bit of a parallel...both were MASTER MASS COMMUNICATORS who sought to enlighten, in jesus' case to alleviate the suffering of the jewish people at the hands of their roman rulers and while jerry would certainly say that he sought only to entertain not to enlighten everything about the dead's music, largley, carries a heavy dose of mysticism, of conjuring, of opening the doors of perception and similarly to offer people an avenue through which they can ever so briefly step out of the imposed social construct....

now, in the dead's case, they are opening the doors of perception that were initially opened for them via LSD. i cite the same interview as before where jerry talks about the layers of his own mind being revealed to him through psychedelic experience -- he had discovered the unlimited potential within himself and realized his innate connection to the cosmic and eternal...jesus offered new perception via religious devotion, but one rooted in the self, it was one of his most radical ideas, that each human carried the spirit -- the divine was no longer "other" it is within us all, we just have to tap into it.

jeses and jerry/the dead were both addressing these issues of perception, the unique condition of humans to not only be natural beings but also part of a much larger social construct...like all great art, this performance of morning dew in it's shear power and beauty allows us to partake in something greater than ourselves, a glimpse of the divine.

and the truly remarkable thing that we all know about the dead -- it is a live experience, a ritual, a place and time when we gather to be lead/entertained, to be shown the light, and there is something about SEEING the video as opposed to just listening....on the headphones you can feel and hear the power of the music...but there is just something about seeing Jerry in action, at the height of his powers....what a BEAUTIFUL VOICE he had, what amazing energy....sure he was just a guy playing music as best he could, he had no supernatural powers, wasnt at all the best technical guitarist (he had soul), never thought himself a high priest, just doing what he could to allow his audience to experience something greater than themselves and this video captures jerry at his purest -- blowing open the doors of perception.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 8, 2007 2:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

with all due respect, to categorize Jerry as nothing more than a gifted guitarist to account for his wide appeal, well, in my opinion, i think it's too pat an answer or reason; if that were the case, my music library would be chock full of amazing guitarists, or, i would be listening to Jerry and in my head going over the chord progressions and other musical signatures, however, neither is the case; whereas i certainly do not and have never equated Jerry as a christ-like figure, he did have a public persona, or essence if you will, that transcended his remarkable human flaws and failures and added to his overall appeal; yes, he was a very gifted guitarist and musician, but he was also quite modest and humble, character traits not often evident in celebrities of his stature; he also gave more of himself than any other artist i am familiar with; and when i see people categorize him as just a junkie, or just a brilliant guitarist and nothing more, well, i and millions will just have to disagree; he did very much bring to the table more than his remarkable talent, or i suppose that all the attention given to his music here on the web, or the fact that this forum at LMA is the most active, both just flukes, right? hmmm, somehow i believe not; anyway, i am just disagreeing with your assessment, not in any way trying to start something; cheers mate

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Poster: Ssag Date: Jul 8, 2007 11:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

(I honestly am looking for an intelligent debate on this matter and in no way slamming anyone directly)

I respect what you are saying and I myself fall into how you see it with regards to the Dead. But the fact remains this whole "Jerry = Jesus" is misguided and disturbing to me.

1) They were a band called the Grateful Dead not just one guy named Jerry and the Scrubs. It was the band that created the music not Jerry himself. Thats where this whole discussion about Jerry equals Jesus goes wrong. Without each other this beautiful thing they created never happens. The same can not be said about any of the other bands that Jerry played in. It was good stuff but didn't have the power of the Dead and all the magic the Dead created. Why? Because it took 6 of them to make this power happen not just one guy named Jerry.

2) I guess you could call it humility but the reality was the Jerry was always freaked out that people turned him into a deity of some sort. The Dead talked about it repeatedly that it bothered them that weirdos created this image that he was a deity. He was a humble guy but there are a lot of humble people and none of them are being compared to a deity. Frankly, in the latter days it ruined the scene that people adored him in this manner.

3) Whatever your religious beliefs are we are talking about the one of most important historical figures that walked the planet. Doesn't matter if you think he was the son of god or not (I know I don't think he was), but we are still talking about this guy named Jesus 2000 years later, something that will never happen for Jerry. There are other people that have graced this planet that have done more for humankind than what Jerry did and during his life time to boot. All they did was play music for a select group of people that "got it". This is not criticism on Jerry it's reality and perspective on what the situation is.

Yes, Jerry had something special in his blood but it's not something that can be compared to a deity. He was special and had a gift to create music but that was it, thats all this ever was. Beautiful, stunning and sometimes religiously evoking music butthey did together as a band not as an individual named Jerry. People are slighting Pig, Bobby, Phil, Keith, Donna Mickey and Billy when they make these claims Jerry = Jesus. They had as much to do with what we enjoyed and experienced as Jerry did.

This post was modified by Ssag on 2007-07-09 06:01:53

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Poster: He Live's Date: Jul 9, 2007 11:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

all well and good....

but dont be so hung up on your concept of jesus....you're atittude/understanding of "jesus" is really a perspective on christianity/western social constructs shaped by your current world view. jesus christ of nazareth was only marginally known in his time. remeber the first gospel was written 50 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH.

so no, you're right, between "jerry 'captain trips' garcia," figurehead of the greatest touring circus ever known, and "jesus christ" the name/symbol linked to the force that was unleashed after his death which has altered the course of human histroy for ever more, NO there is no comparison.

but i was actually comparing plain ole jerry and the prophet jesus....and unless your understanding of christianity is completely faulty, we all compare to jesus and vice versa.....LIKE UMMMM that;s sort of the whole idea....there is no way, as people living in this society that WE DON'T compare....we have no choice baby, they used his name when they made the rules

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Poster: Hugo Fugerzev Date: Jul 9, 2007 2:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

But, I thought it was universally agreed that if God played guitar, he would sound like Michael Schenker.

This post was modified by Hugo Fugerzev on 2007-07-09 21:17:28

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 8, 2007 7:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

Bringing you to that place is one thing; keeping you there is quite another. To steal a phrase from Hunter S. Thompson, Jesus Christ played ball in a league in which Jerry Garcia will never be anything more than a bat boy- and I don't mean that as a slight to Garcia in anyway way. He was an amazing individual.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 8, 2007 10:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

hey, nice paraphrase of HT, never heard that one before; thanks

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Jul 8, 2007 9:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

I'm going with Jerry as Orpheus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus).

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 8, 2007 6:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 4-27-1977 JERRY = JESUS +

I can appreciate your enthusiasm but, while there's no doubt Jerry Garcia was a special and gifted individual, equating him with Jesus Christ strikes me as just plain silly. On the other hand, if billions of people are looking to Jerry for hope and guidance two thousand years from now perhaps we'll need to revist this topic.